Author Topic: Jacking Rings.  (Read 2903 times)

Offline SMOKEN

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Jacking Rings.
« on: October 09, 2009, 09:36:08 PM »
G'day,
        If you are like me and have read most posts on the forum then you've probably heard the term, "jacking rings". Also if you are like me and like to go bush a bit and tend to overload your moke ::) then this is an easy and recommended modification to do. Firstly i have to thank Terry for telling me how to do it. He probably learned tha hard way and we get the benefit of it. When we went on our power line run he was mortified at what i carried with me and also informed me thet the Ratster was resting on the rear bump stops.  Even though it was raised with hilo's. Rear bump stops i hear you ask? I thought the same thing theres no rubber bump stops back there but there is a bump stop and I'll show you.
   First the rubber donut when its under load, it does more than just compress. It tries to turn itself inside out and to stop this, there is a raised bump in the subframe that doesn't allow the donut to do it therefore it bottoms out or rests on the bump stop.
      
    Heres a pic of the bump stop. the inside of the concave part of the donut hits that mound.
                                        
                                  

 The next thing you have to do is to remove most of that mound. A 4" angle grinder is the only way and its not the neatest but its not seen.

                                  

  Now you have to make a jacking ring. These fit around the base of the Donut and give clearence for the donut to compress further with out bottoming out. I made mine out of a strip of steel 25mm wide was cut from a gas bottle as it was sort of heading in the right direction.( roundish) The gas bottle was empty by the way :) Heres how i made them.

                                  

  The strips were then folded around an old hub to get the shape

                                  

  They were then welded and cleaned up. The finished product

                                  

 This is what they look like fitted to the donut

                                  

 Then the donut and hilo assembly was refitted.

                                  

What this does is raise the rear suspension a bit and adjusted to the required height via the hilos. But most important is with weight or rough terrain (or both)  :o the donuts are able to do their job, even nearly turn inside out if they had to with out bottoming on the bump stop. Giving a less rigid ride.

           smoken    with thanks to Terry

                                  

                                  
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 09:56:12 PM by moemoke »

SWOMBY won't let me, I have to go to a stupid Wedding. :(

Offline Newie

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 09:49:09 PM »
Very helpful and easy to understand (as usual) Smokey - with thanks to Terry for the idea.

Particularly useful to those of us who are yet to do up there rear subframe  :)

Newie
1966 Moke - "The Gnome" Current work in progress
1979 Californian - Going, but a long long long way from roadworthy.
Plus a couple of other garden gnomes for parts

I'm a genius in disguise............It's a bloody good disguise-no one ever suspects a thing

Offline moemoke

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 09:55:20 PM »
Great post Smoken,

The idea has been around for a while but became a neccessity at Camerons corner
when 2 mokes suffered the same problem with bent hi-lo rods

This mod is especially important if you fit hi-lo's as the rod to replace the trumpet
is weaker than what the trumpet was so you end up with a banana shaped rod
as Smoken has already had happen.

If you fit the jacking rings without hi-lo's then the back of the moke will sit up quite high
I think its a 3-1 ratio (or 5-1) so if the ring is 1" then you will raise it 3"

Also if you overload the rear with standard suspension the first thing to break is the
trailing arm pin, which will also ruin the tyre as it will dig into the subframe mount bolt at the back

I hope the guys doing the posty bike trip across the Gulf country have done this, with 2 huge esky's full of beer
and all the other stuff they wont get to far.

1976 Moke 1275cc, 1974 Moke with Suzuki GTI motor (project), 1976 Moke Project, 1975 Moke rust bucket, 1967 Moke rust bucket

Offline Mr Spotlights

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 09:56:17 PM »
Thanks Smoken, I have seen this mod discussed before but never really understood it until you explained with pictures. I know the MOA used to sell jacking rings (dont know if they still do).
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 12:38:06 AM by Mr Spotlights »

Offline martin

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 10:22:48 AM »
Thanks Smoken - I wondered where the bump stops were - I had come to the conclusion my moke didnt have them.
Martin
Stormtrooper - the white moke with the dark side

Offline Terry

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 11:16:26 AM »
Hi,

Smoken has pretty much covered the basics, but I am not sure that people should be cutting up LPG cylinders to get the metal, but otherwise the advice is pretty much correct from Smoken and Moe.

A couple of things to add is the guy who originally built the Gryphon, as the Griffin, Robin Booth first bought the idea into the Clubs about 20 years or so ago and I learnt italong the way so i can only take credit for passing on. The ones being sold by the club are no longer available and I did manage to break the last two I bought so I have been making my own since. Peter L. has a set of mine in The Stealth but they are big and heavy duty ones so you do need the adjustable suspension to make it sit right.

And the ratio on the rear is 7:1 so 1mm on the jacking ring is 7mm in ride height. The ones smoken made were 25mm, or I suggested 20mm, but you do lose a lot of that as it slips over the donut and it will become a snug fit once bedded in so you can expect around 5-10 mm increase at the end of the day. The jacking ring isn't the only method to do what is required but it is the easiest that does requiring machines.

Terry

 

Offline Newie

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 11:50:32 AM »

                                   
                                

Just noticed the bottle of anti chip coating in the background. Good to see you're going the extra mile to protect the immaculate finish of the Ratster Smokey  ;D

Smoken has pretty much covered the basics, but I am not sure that people should be cutting up LPG cylinders to get the metal, but otherwise the advice is pretty much correct from Smoken and Moe.

Terry

That had occurred to me too Terry. Smoken probably knew the cylinder was well and truly empty  (I hope ::)) but it's a dangerous trick for some of the less experienced members to try. One way you can be 100% confident it is safe is to take the valve out of the top and fill it with water, letting it overflow out the top. Then you can tip the water out and cut away with 100% confidence that there can be no gas left. We used to use the same method for cutting up old fuel containers (another operation that you can easily find numerous woorkcover case studies on) to remove the residual explosive fumes.

Little details like the fact that LPG is actually heavier than air traps the unwary. They let the gas out of the top valve and assume it is empty. In actual fact, all the pressurised gas is gone, but there is a residual pool of unpressurised gas left in the cylinder. Filling it with water to overflowing point forces all of the gas out.

Newie
1966 Moke - "The Gnome" Current work in progress
1979 Californian - Going, but a long long long way from roadworthy.
Plus a couple of other garden gnomes for parts

I'm a genius in disguise............It's a bloody good disguise-no one ever suspects a thing

Offline appache

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2009, 12:05:57 PM »
Nice post Smokey - it all makes perfectly good sense

Terry, would it be possible to put a link to this thread on the future "how to" page of www.moke.com.au

It would save republishing it, AND it then comes complete with everyone's added useful comments
Aimee
1979 - 1100 - 2 seater hardtop - soon to be remodeled??

Offline SMOKEN

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2009, 12:21:34 PM »
G'day.
      The gas cylinder had the brass fittings removed yonks ago
and I had already cut the end out of it for another project.  ;)

                  smokey

SWOMBY won't let me, I have to go to a stupid Wedding. :(

Offline Newie

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 12:25:20 PM »
I knew you'd have it under control Smokey. Just worried that Middie and Turnip Boy might try the same thing on the BBQ bottle after a few Barefoot Raddlers  ;) ;D

Newie
1966 Moke - "The Gnome" Current work in progress
1979 Californian - Going, but a long long long way from roadworthy.
Plus a couple of other garden gnomes for parts

I'm a genius in disguise............It's a bloody good disguise-no one ever suspects a thing

Offline Newie

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 12:28:20 PM »
Terry, would it be possible to put a link to this thread on the future "how to" page of www.moke.com.au

Good idea. We need somewhere to keep all these sort of posts together. They can be hard to find when you need them in amognst all of the other slightly less useful info  ;)

Newie
1966 Moke - "The Gnome" Current work in progress
1979 Californian - Going, but a long long long way from roadworthy.
Plus a couple of other garden gnomes for parts

I'm a genius in disguise............It's a bloody good disguise-no one ever suspects a thing

Offline bnicho

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 11:38:41 AM »
Someone told me (might be Watto?) not to fit hi-los in the rear because they bend.  I've only used them in the front.

At  the rear I've simply got some washers between the trumpet and knuckle to raise the height a little.  I think these washers are actually a BMC part. 

I've never had an issue with the rear end bottoming, but I've not had mine off-road much at all, nor loaded it up with camping gear. 
Brett Nicholson
**I AM GOING TO MOKE MUSTER 2011, ARE YOU?**
1971 Morris Mini Moke - 1275 4spd Auto - MOPOKE.
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Long Term Resto - Trixie
1987 Austin Mini 1275 - Rustbucket!
1974 Volkswagen Superbug L - Olive
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Offline Moke 71

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2009, 09:26:45 PM »
as an alternative to this has anyone ever considered having some springs made up to replace the rear donuts.

would it work?

cheers
dave
Moke 1971

Offline 77Devil

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2009, 09:48:46 PM »
as an alternative to this has anyone ever considered having some springs made up to replace the rear donuts.

would it work?

cheers
dave

Hi Dave,
 Here is a link to a coil spring that will replace a donut, You will still need a hi lo to go with it.

There appear to be out of stock at teh moment, though.

http://www.minisport.com.au/category2_5.htm

Cheers

Dev

Going to be busy in '11

Offline Terry

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Re: Jacking Rings.
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2009, 10:25:31 PM »
Hi,

The extra washers Bnicho describes are probably the ones from under the bolts that hold on the rocker cover and has two issues. First is that they only change the ride height and not the amount of suspension travel so the Moke might look better but will still be riding on the bumpstops or near to them. Also putting too many washers on have been known to crack the end of the trumpet because there is not enough shaft from the ball inside the thick area of the trumpet.

The adjustable suspension in the rear isn't really the issue that (watto?) is suggesting but the rear arm extension that is used by most Mini shops. The extension used is commonly from a Hydralastic Mini and although it works in a Mini they do bend when you use them in a Moke, the main reason is the extra leverage of the longer trailing arm. So a normal adjustable suspension with a heavy duty extension is fine.

As for the use of Springs there are numerous ones available these days and they are getting better but they seems to suffer a problem of being too stiff and hard for the front of a mini so in the rear of a Moke you may as well just stick a block of wood in there. This may change with a heavily loaded Moke but for the time being a decent donut with the mods mentioned in this thread are usually a simple, cheap and effective solution.

Terry
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 10:28:30 PM by Terry »