Moke 998 gear box

[THE STIG]

Hi there,
I having been progressing in my moke restoration and have now moved onto the gear box (i think it is called the 'magic wand type case') it is from a 998cc engine from a morris mini moke (not shore of the age), I do not no the correct terms for things but I'll try my best 
On the gear box where the gear stick attaches onto the gear box, by that I mean were the ball of the stick goes into the gear box, I have looked at some other gear boxes that the previous owner gave us (none of which will ever work) and they have a small locking pad that slot in with the slot cut into the gear stick holding it in place and stopping the stick from turning or dropping, my problem is that the gear box i wanted to use doesn't appear to have anything like that so the gear stick although having that slot cut into it can rotate and move around easily.
I was wondering what my problem is,
thanks and any help is appreciated 

[THE STIG]

Hi there, i decided to add some picture to try and make some more sense of what i am trying to say, hope they help 

The picture above is of the gear box that is not on the engine,this gear box has 1st gear stripped, the arrow is pointing to what i thought on all gear boxes that the gear stick alines with  and holds it in place.


This picture is of the gear stick that I have. the slot is what i thought you use to keep it in place.



The two above pictures are of the gear box setup on my engine and where the gear stick goes in.
thanks 

[Tim]

Ok, this gets a bit confusing, but to start with Minis first. The early Minis started out with a "magic wand" gearbox, the gearstick came out of the floor diagonally, right down near the fire wall. Thats what you've got in the bottom picture. Later on they came up with what was called a "remote change". It was a big cast alloy extension that bolted to the gearbox and moved the gearstick further back, so that it stuck almost upright. The third type of gearbox is called "rod change", it basically had the same effect as the remote change but did away with the alloy casting and has two rods.

Now when it comes to mokes it gets a bit messier. The very first Mokes were the same as the early Minis, they had the magic wand type. Then when they tried to fit the remote gearbox they ran into a problem. The gearstick was so far back it needed to come up under the front edge of the seats, but there isn't room. So what they did was come up with the "toggle change" aka "pudding stirrer". It was a little adaptation to the remote change that essentially just converted it back into a magic wand style. Thats what you've got in your first photo. Unfortunately people often confuse the magic wand style with the toggle style (they both get called "pudding stirrers" because they're hopeless once they get worn). Your solution is to go with one or the other style, the bits can't be mixed and matched. Also the early magic wand (in the bottom photo) is  weaker than the remote/toggle style and was only ever matched to the little 850 engines. That engine seems to say 850 on the back of it so its either an early Mini or a moke one. I'd be trying to get one of the other gearboxes together, if its for a 998.

Tim

[THE STIG]

Hi tim,
Thanks for your reply, So what do you mean by this engine seems to be a 850, i thought it was a 1000 due to it having that little silver plater on it saying 1000 so i just figured it was. So what do you suggets doing about my gear box, keeping it how it is now and if so what do I do about the gear stick and how do i put it in so it doesn't move around or do I have the wrong gear stick.
Thanks, 

[Terry]

Stig,

This is the way the gearstick for the box in your top picture should look, the pudding stirrer.



Not sure what other bits you have there, but the pudding stirrer also comes with a pressed tin plate with four holes to hold everything in thing in place.

Reading your posts, i am not quite sure which gearbox you want to use and which is attached to the engine.

Terry

[THE STIG]

Hi Terry, My gear stick is the same as yours, but i was wondering what the slot on it should go into as mine can (the gear stick) can be twisted when it is in, the gear box I am going to (or hope to) use is the one attached to the engine in the 3rd and 4th pictures.
Thanks 

[Tim]

Hi tim,
Thanks for your reply, So what do you mean by this engine seems to be a 850, i thought it was a 1000 due to it having that little silver plater on it saying 1000 so i just figured it was. So what do you suggets doing about my gear box, keeping it how it is now and if so what do I do about the gear stick and how do i put it in so it doesn't move around or do I have the wrong gear stick.
Thanks, 

Its hard to read in the photo but it looks like the aluminium tag on the back says 850, but it could say 998 I guess. Whats the engine number? That gearstick should be fine but you need the metal plate that bolts on underneath it that Terry referred to. Also the little metal pin in the centre of the toggle (the bit the red arrow is pointing at) looks to be a bit short. It is possible to replace the pin with a piece cut off the end of a drill bit of the correct diameter.

Tim

[Terry]

Stig,

The gearstick in your photo and my photo look the same but are different and are not interchangeable between the 850 box, as pictured in #3 & #4, and the Mini Commercial or pudding stirrer type in photo #1.

I have never been inside an 850 box, but the principle should be the same, the small ball goes into the connection rod and the big slotted ball should find some equivalent pin to that which is in you first photo.

If you have the gearstick like mine, without the plate, and the pressed tin plate, then you can remove the back section of the diff housing off the 850 gearbox and replace it with the diff housing in your first photo, thus converting your 850 style box to a 'commercial' change that will suit the earlier Moke gear hole.

Terry

[THE STIG]

Thanks for your replies, I always thought that the gear box and the engine in those photos #3 and #4 was a 1000cc engine as it has a 1000 plate on it, i hear what you are try to say, to clear things up, the first picture is of another gearbox i have off an 1100, it changes gear and all that normally, but with the 1000 you  can change gear, but a part must gone, because you can rotate the gearstick, in the first photo (the gearbox off an 1100) that part appears to be missing in the 1000 gearbox or does an 1000 use a different system, and could this be why the gear stick is rotating, because i thought that slot on the gear stick would be from something

[Tim]

Umm, I think its best to forget the engine capacity thing at this stage, its just confusing the issue and they've obviously been mixed and matched. Which of these gearboxes do you want to use?

Tim

[THE STIG]

Sorry for confusing everyone, it's just hard to explain things without showing them  I am going to use the gear box that is on the motor in pictures #3 and #4 in my post, all i wanted to no is that on my gear box where the gear stick goes in should something line up with the slot cut into the gear stick or do i just put the gear stick in and bolt that plat onto, because if I do that the gear stick can twist around due to nothing stopping it. 

[Terry]

Stig,

It sounds like something may be broken in the gear set up but unless someone with more knowledge of these changes can help, you will probably need to get inside it and see what is or isn't inside. Watch for the broken bits falling out as you dismantle it.

But the stick should not twist.

Terry

[Tim]

Stig, sorry but we're struggling a bit here because this is a Mini 850 gearbox, I don't think they were ever used on Australian Mokes. There should be a pin that runs in a slot on the ball on the gearstick. Its the part numbered 15 in the diagram below.



Therefore the gearstick you have also needs to have a groove in the correct location and to be roughly the same shape at the lower end as the one in the picture above. I'm not certain, but I think you are trying to fit the gearstick from a toggle change box into a magic wand box. The two types are not interchangeable.

Tim

[THE STIG]

Thanks Tim the diagram really helped I'll have a look at mine and compare what's there and not there  , but if it is an 850 gear box why does it have a 1000 badge on the block?? 

[Tim]

but if it is an 850 gear box why does it have a 1000 badge on the block?? 

Cos someone unbolted the original gearbox from the block and swapped it for an 850 one, probably because it had stripped first gear.

 I wonder whether they swapped the diff over? It could well still have the original diff ratio, which isn't going to be ideal on a Moke with 13" wheels.