Author Topic: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog  (Read 17265 times)

Offline Maddog

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #105 on: April 27, 2011, 11:47:27 PM »
Got a few bits back in place, like the RADIATOR!!! I think I only swore once.... although Mrs Maddog reckons she heard me several times. :-[ The new top bracket fitted perfectly, but needed a couple of bends to line it up height wise which buggered the paint job. :(

Trying to outback proof Ron, I have done away with the original bypass hose and now the hot water will come out of the head via the heater outlet and straight into the radiator top tank. It will take a bit longer to warm up, but not usually a problem here! Also added a high flow pump, kevlar hoses, new fan and a hi flow two core radiator. I think the radiator will be fine, but there is room to install a four core if needed.

In the end I bent up a new bypass pipe out of 1/2" copper - didn't like the idea of an ugly hose winding around the engine bay. Trial fit....


It almost lines up with the inlet - but not bad for a guess! (And yes, I have another rocker cover to go on. ;))

Dummied it all up on an old head to add the mounting brackets, and will silver solder it all together tomorrow and flare the end for the hose.



Cheers, MD.
Mickey 81 Californian Arnold 82 Californian Baldy 82 Californian Ron 79 Califakian Eskymoke 82 Californian

I always wanted to die in my Moke at 100......... unfortunately it won't do more than 80!

Offline Newie

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2011, 07:39:08 AM »
Very neat looking innovation there as always MD  :). Much nicer than the rubber hose look.


Newie
1966 Moke - "The Gnome" Current work in progress
1979 Californian - Going, but a long long long way from roadworthy.
Plus a couple of other garden gnomes for parts

I'm a genius in disguise............It's a bloody good disguise-no one ever suspects a thing

Offline Terry

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2011, 08:31:50 AM »
Hi,

I think it would look even better n Chrome :)

Very nice idea, though are you sure it is going to work? And are the braces/supports in the mock going to be on the head to support the water filled pipe?

The usual idea of getting cooler water from the bottom radiator hose and putting it in through the heater inlet at #4 is with the idea of putting cooler water down that end of the head. I am not entirely sure that works as intended either due to to the direction of water flow.

In your set up the hot water from the engine is pumped into top header tank and whatever doesn't go down the cores is going to return the other end of the head at about the same temp as what it came out at. If the usual system does actually work then wouldn't your nice pipe be better off picking up from the heater outlet on the the bottom hose to pump colder water to #4.

Terry

Terry

Offline nickomokeo

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2011, 09:00:23 AM »
wouldn't your nice pipe be better off picking up from the heater outlet on the the bottom hose to pump colder water to #4.

I don't think that would work.  You would get water circulating through the head, coming out the heater outlet and back in via the bottom hose and not actually going through the radiator.

Nicko

Offline Terry

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2011, 09:18:44 AM »
I don't think that would work.  You would get water circulating through the head, coming out the heater outlet and back in via the bottom hose and not actually going through the radiator.

Nicko

That is about what I think too, that is why I am not entirely sure the the usual method of picking up from the heater outlet works, however it has been a mod that many people have done for many years and it supposedly works but something else must be happening.

Terry

Offline mattsmadmini

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2011, 09:35:39 AM »
That looks gorgeous MD!!!!

Ive been thinking of doing the same thing for a while, but i was going to go along the front into the thermostat housing.... Copper for the win i reckon!

and dont replace it for chrome... polish up the copper to a mirror finish instead ;)

-Matt

I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness

1967 Moke - Sanchez (made it to wagga and back...)

Offline aussieclown

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #111 on: April 28, 2011, 10:24:48 AM »
HI Puppy,

Good Job,

May I suggest the following,

Bend the brackets around the pipe and then solder. I have seen this set up before done on older 4WD and where the silver solder is will rupture due to vibration. By wrapping the bracket around the pipe prevent this from ocurring

AC

The Checker Plate King, at least it does not rust

Offline Newie

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2011, 11:11:01 AM »

and dont replace it for chrome... polish up the copper to a mirror finish instead ;)

-Matt

And then repolish it every week or so  ;)

You can actually get copper pipe with a chrome type finish (actually nickel plated I think) which would look quite good too, although you'd muck up the finish a bit when you silver soldered it - well I would, Maddog would probably do it invisibly from the other side or something  ;) ;D

The plus side is that MD should have plenty of time to work out whether the system actually works before I get mine done  :)


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1966 Moke - "The Gnome" Current work in progress
1979 Californian - Going, but a long long long way from roadworthy.
Plus a couple of other garden gnomes for parts

I'm a genius in disguise............It's a bloody good disguise-no one ever suspects a thing

Offline Terry

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #113 on: April 28, 2011, 06:35:26 PM »
Quote
Trying to outback proof Ron, I have done away with the original bypass hose and now the hot water will come out of the head via the heater outlet and straight into the radiator top tank.

I did some more thinking/asking about this and in the case that a thermostat shuts down then yes this method for bypassing it may work, however in a normally functioning system the water is likely to just get confused and not travel the pipe. The water pump will be trying to push it from the heater outlet end and the water pressure in the header tank will be pushing it from the other end.

A couple of holes drilled in the thermostat base would offer the same protection without the risk of pipe fatigue or breakage.

Terry

Offline Maddog

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2011, 09:18:21 PM »
Thanks for the comments Guys!
 
I must admit I'm a bit relieved it fitted first try - the bender has all the measments about how much you lose or gain on a bend, but got a bit confusing in the end so I just eyeballed it.
 
I hope no-one will be disappointed - but I was just going to paint it black! Sort of the subtle factory fitted effect rather than 'look at me!'. But copper is perfect to chrome if you like that sort of thing. ;)

May I suggest the following,

Bend the brackets around the pipe and then solder. I have seen this set up before done on older 4WD and where the silver solder is will rupture due to vibration. By wrapping the bracket around the pipe prevent this from ocurring

Excellent idea AC - I will do that. I did have the brackets wrapped around underneath so it looked neat on top, but reliability is more important. Thanks.

I did some more thinking/asking about this and in the case that a thermostat shuts down then yes this method for bypassing it may work, however in a normally functioning system the water is likely to just get confused and not travel the pipe. The water pump will be trying to push it from the heater outlet end and the water pressure in the header tank will be pushing it from the other end.

A couple of holes drilled in the thermostat base would offer the same protection without the risk of pipe fatigue or breakage.

Terry

I understand your thinking Terry, but I don't believe it will work like that. The water is in a closed loop, traveling in one direction assisted by the pump. Water is pushed into the block by the pump, and out the heater outlet across to the top tank. From here is is sucked or pushed down the core into the bottom hose to go around again. When the thermostat opens there will be more flow through the radiator, but it will all still go in the same direction. The water pump will push on both the top hose and the bypass, and both flows will have to go down through the radiator to the bottom hose to the suction side of the pump to replace the coolant the pump has pushed out of the block.

The pipe I have is plumbed exactly the same as the top radiator hose - except it comes off the other end of the head and doesn't have a thermostat. It is also very similar to the later heater setup, except the return is to the top tank and not the bottom - the only difference is the coolant travels down a tube inside the radiator and not one soldered to the side.

Holes in the thermostat are a good option, and what I have on Arnold (although he has a heater as well). The advantage of this system is it takes water from the hottest part of the head, and replaces it with cooled water from the radiator. It also increases the total flow through the radiator if the thermostat is ever full open. I wouldn't bother if I had a heater, as this does the same thing with the heater core doing the cooling instead of the radiator.

At the end of the day, the difference probably won't be noticable - but if it never overheats then I'm happy! ;D


Cheers, MD.


Mickey 81 Californian Arnold 82 Californian Baldy 82 Californian Ron 79 Califakian Eskymoke 82 Californian

I always wanted to die in my Moke at 100......... unfortunately it won't do more than 80!

Offline nickomokeo

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #115 on: April 28, 2011, 09:55:54 PM »
Matt Reid does this modification to all his engines.
I did it to mine last year, the only difference being I piped it through the inlet manifold.
Nicko

Offline Casper

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2011, 10:58:54 PM »
As always you doing what I (and others) are thinking. I love it (talk later about some piping for me  ;) )

Casper


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Offline Maddog

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2011, 09:06:07 PM »
Matt Reid does this modification to all his engines.
I did it to mine last year, the only difference being I piped it through the inlet manifold.
Nicko

So does it work Nicko?? ;D

Managed to get a full day in the Kennel today, although I never seem to get as much done as I'd like. :(

Made new brackets for the pipe, as suggested by AC.


Then soldered it all up - doesn't look quite as pretty now....... :'(


While I had the oxy out, I soldered up the expansion tank. It had a couple of leaks around the seam that I probably made worse by bead blasting it.


And finally fitted new steady bushes. Has anyone used the new type? They were all I had, so thought I'd give them a go.


Had to press them in, but look like they should work okay.

While removing the old bushes, I noticed someone had carefully ground the steel spacer down in all of them to take a bit of the slop out - how tight can you get! :D


Cheers, MD.
Mickey 81 Californian Arnold 82 Californian Baldy 82 Californian Ron 79 Califakian Eskymoke 82 Californian

I always wanted to die in my Moke at 100......... unfortunately it won't do more than 80!

Offline nickomokeo

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #118 on: May 01, 2011, 09:56:08 PM »
My engine stays nice and cool all the time. Even on a stinking hot Queensland day the temp only goes up a tad.

As to weather the mod works.  Matt assures me that it gives a much more even temperature across the head, by giving better flow down to the hot end of the head.  you would need to put temp guages on both ends of the head before and after the mod to confirm it though and I never have.

I must confess, I gave myself an out.  I blocked the bypass by pushing a half inch ball bearing into the hose.  Thereby making it reversable if I wanted to, but all good so far.

Nicko

Offline SMOKEN

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Re: In The Kennel - The Dog Blog
« Reply #119 on: May 01, 2011, 10:06:11 PM »
G'day Nicko,
            How smart are you? i'dve never thought of that

           smoken

SWOMBY won't let me, I have to go to a stupid Wedding. :(